As I checked up on Twitter Thursday morning I noticed that “social security” was a trending topic. Very rarely do you see a trending topic that has any real life value, so it was for this reason I decided to see what all the fuss was about.
You don’t have to be Democrat or Republican to know that Social Security is bankrupt. This is a non-partisan issue, or at least it should be.
Some seem to believe that reform is not only needed but necessary, while others think it should just be left alone. Regardless of which side you tend to agree with I have a different set of questions.
Should Social Security even exist as we know it today?
What has it accomplished? You could say it is helping the disabled and saving people from being retirement poor, but is it? It seems to me the problem with social security is in what it doesn’t do, not what it does do. It does pass out money for retirement and disability, both of which can be achieved outside of any government program, but what it doesn’t do is create much incentive for people to prepare for these things on their own.
I certainly would not want to take it away from those people who find themselves between a rock and a hard place, but what if social security (among other government social programs) is creating that rock and hard place?
Think about it.
Social Security has become an entitlement rather than a benefit. People depend on it. NO, THEY EXPECT THE GOVERNMENT TO PROVIDE FOR US! Instead of preparing and planning for it themselves the job has been outsourced to a less responsible alternative — the government.
Is that smart?
Is it smart to rely on a government that has proven so clearly to be inept at managing its own finances? The same government that spends more money than it takes in and raises the debt ceiling every time it reaches the previous limit? Isn’t that just like asking your broke and bankrupt uncle to manage your money for you? Yet we are doing the very same thing with regard to our retirement.
“Here you handle it because I’m too lazy to do it myself.”
Perhaps that’s a rather harsh statement since most people are simply following the herd and do not understand the signs that suggest the herd is headed in the wrong direction. Social Security is a disaster of a retirement strategy, and with baby boomers retiring what’s left of it probably wont last too much longer. How can we EXPECT to keep a program because we’re afraid of what would happen if we didn’t have it, even though continuing it is going to bankrupt the country anyway?
I don’t think we can abolish it completely because so many people do depend on it, but what if it was reformed and the size and scope of it was more realistic? What if we encouraged our youth to save for retirement? What if personal responsibility reigned supreme? What if we thought of it as our responsibility instead of expecting someone else to do it for us?
Would we need Social Security then?
I’m willing to bet that some still would and I wouldn’t want to deny it to those who truly need it, but couldn’t the entire program be down-sized if we took a different approach to retirement and even disability from a personal perspective? I don’t want anyone living on the streets, but I would like to see Americans placing money management at the top of their lists of things to do, making the need to properly plan for their future a priority. If there is one thing I despise more than anything it’s the entitlement mindset and it is running rampant in this country.
The only person who owes you anything is you! You should be responsible for your debt, your health care, your retirement, your savings account, your insurance, and your disability. We can figure out some way to properly help the rest who fall through the cracks for whatever reason, but Social Security as we know it is a complete joke!
We need to stop relying on our broke uncle (The U.S. Government) to micro-manage our life and instead get out there and do it on our own. Want to know what I’m going to do with my Social Security if it even gets to the point of me receiving it (which I doubt)? Not completely sure right now, but I’m leaning towards donating it to worthy charities and will be using my own retirement savings to retire with. In other words, I’m going to pretend it doesn’t even exist in the first place. I think you should do the same.
Before I get bombarded with hate mail due to this touchy subject, please know that I’m not picking on anyone. I’m just trying to suggest a better tactic when it comes to planning for important things in life. I’m simply saying that relying on the government to do for you what you can do for yourself is a huge mistake, and one that should be reconsidered.
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“Social Security has become an entitlement rather than a benefit” . Whoa! When I think of a benefit, I think of something “gifted”, looking at my paystubs I can say that social security is not “gifted”, I paid for it. As for entitlement, I am only entitled to what I paid for or earned.
I do however agree that we all must accept personal responsibility for our financial well being.
To be clear, I consider it an entitlement because we expect the government to do it for us in the first place. It’s not about paying us what we have paid in, it’s about the fact that social security exists at all — for everyone — as opposed to just for those who need help. It exists because we expect it to exist. That’s why every time it’s brought up for reform it gets shot down because we EXPECT the government to continue to provide it for us. Thanks for the comment! 😀
BTW, I do think you are entitled to the money that has been taken from you, I just don’t think you are entitled to have the government provide retirement for you. 🙂
I tend to be more understanding when older people rely on Social Security. After all, that’s what was promised to them when they were young – you work, you pay in, and you’ll get a check every month when you’re old. So they trusted the government (!) and said, “Okay, I’ll have my pension and Social Security. I’ll be fine.” I don’t blame the older generation for the fact that pensions basically don’t exist anymore. It just makes me sad that so many of them thought they would have a backup, yet that backup doesn’t usually provide enough money to live on.
As for our generation, they’re just idiots if they think Social Security will do anything for them. I save for retirement under the assumption that whatever I save is what I’ll be living on. If Social Security is still around, that’s great! Extra money! But if it’s not, I refuse to spend my retirement years worrying about having enough to eat. I think too many people just don’t spend time thinking about these issues – they expect the government to do SOMETHING to take care of them (entitlement!) and just float along, waiting for it to happen.
I agree with you Andrea on both parts. That’s why I don’t think any reform should cut out retirement for people approaching retirement. I’m not sure what age the line should be drawn at though. LOL Too many people that have the ability to save for their own retirement do absolutely nothing because like you said, they have left that part up to the government to do for them (entitlement).
I just wish that people would stand up and fight instead of buying into the fact that without the government they wouldn’t have certain things.
I totally agree that SS isn’t an entitlement, we pay for it with every paycheck! And calling it a sense of entitlement is insulting. Since I don’t have the option not to pay it, I absolutely feel that I should get that money back in the future (or not have it taken out so I can plan for my own retirement. Unfortunately, I don’t think that will happen any time soon). I agree that people should take responsibility for their own retirement. However, in an age where most companies no longer offer a pension, and millions of people are without 401(k)s, etc. that is becoming harder to do. And, even people who were responsible and contributed to their 401(k)s lost their shirts in the downturn and due to corporate corruption. And, it’s estimated that the Millenials are the first generation who won’t do as well as their parents did and many will work low-wage jobs their entire lives. SS is a huge and complex issue. It should certainly be examined, but given the current conditions I expect that without SS millions of people would retirement poor, and that is unlikely to change anytime soon.
If you expect the government to provide something for you it is absolutely an entitlement. Sure the government forces you to pay into SS but that could change if enough people decided they didn’t “need” the government to provide it for them. People have become lazy and I’m not talking about the people who have saved and lost money due to the economy, I’m talking about people completely relying on a government to pay them from a broken system without even saving fro retirement on their own.
What you’re suggesting is that just because the government steals money from you that you should lie down and accept it because there’s nothing you can do. Yeah actually there is, it’s called voting out the people who insist that you need to be coddled like a school child for the rest of your life because you can’t do it yourself.
Right now there are congressmen and women claiming that anyone that wants to overhaul social security as it is doesn’t care about old people or their retirement. And people all over the country buy into this bull crap instead of allowing someone to change it. Instead they lie down and say I can’t do anything about it. That is precisely why it won’t change, because of that mindset.
We expect the government to provide something we can provide for ourselves and even though they take money from us by force that doesn’t make it right. Even though I’ve been paying into the social security bull crap my entire lie I do not feel entitled to that money for that reason alone. Yes I should get it all back, but I won’t because it’s the government. If you care so much about people being retirement poor then we should have let the government privatize social security so we at least controlled the money that came out of our paychecks each and every week.
I stand by my statement that if you expect someone to do something for you then you feel entitled. Again, my point was that instead of relying on social security for retirement we should save and have better financial habits instead of being complacent about what our role is for our future. 🙂
You ask if Social Security created the “rock and the hard place” of poverty. Social Security was signed into law in 1935 and the first taxes were collected in 1937. Did we have impoverished senior citizens in this country prior to 1935? Yes, we did. Therefore, I believe the answer to your question is no, Social Security did not create poverty.
Should people rely on government or on themselves? On themselves, absolutely. I completely agree that we are responsible for ourselves and should behave accordingly.
Aren’t we as a society already encouraging young adults to save/invest for their own retirements? Social Security sends out statements and has a benefits estimator available. The government has created several types of accounts offering tax advantages to those who choose to use the accounts to save/invest. We have campaigns such as Feed the Pig and America Saves encouraging people to save. In your opinion, what else should we be doing to raise awareness and encourage people to save?
With all due respect, I didn’t say it created poverty but I certainly did suggest that having social security in place has made too many people reliant on government to provide for them instead of themselves. You are completely ignoring the fact that when you give someone something they stop trying to provide it for themselves. Look no further than London, Greece and France for proof of that entitlement mindset!
The fact that our country can’t even balance the budget because people are crying about entitlement programs also suggests that America is coming dangerously close to that as well. Every time entitlement reform is mentioned with regard to health care, social security, unemployment and welfare people lose their minds.
Welfare – give people welfare and a majority never get off of it. Unemployment – Give people unemployment and they won’t look for work until they absolutely have to. Social Security – Give people money for retirement and watch the masses stop saving for retirement. Government REMOVES incentive to do for yourself.
Here’s a rock and a hard place that happens all too often which is why so many people remain reliant on entitlement programs.
I know a girl who had to quit a $50,000 dollar a year management job she got promoted to just so she could continue to receive health care for her baby because the government was going to discontinue health coverage because she made too much. instead of waiting until her insurance kicked in 3 months after starting they were going to leave her sick baby uninsured. If that’s not creating a rock and a hard place I don’t know what is. Guess where she is now? Still on Welfare with a crappy job! The government is the biggest problem this country faces and social security is only a small part of that.
No, society AS A WHOLE is not encouraging people to save, because they are too busy watching reality television and running up debt to even notice. Only certain people in society are taking on that role with blogs websites and programs like what Dave Ramsey teaches. Did you know financial literacy is not a major subject in government run schools? When it becomes as important as math and English and science, only then will it be enough in my opinion.
Brad,
You stated/asked the following: “I certainly would not want to take it away from those people who find themselves between a rock and a hard place, but what if social security (among other government social programs) is creating that rock and hard place?”
My answer is no, Social Security did not create “a rock and hard place”. The rock and hard place existed before Social Security. Social Security was created in an attempt to ease poverty of the elderly. We can argue how effective it has been, or if it should exist at all, but I don’t think we can argue that a newer thing (Social Security) created an older thing (poverty).
I am uncertain what lead you to believe I am “completely ignoring the fact that when you give someone something they stop trying to provide it for themselves.” Can you please clarify?
I am also uncertain how the existence of reality television negates the efforts made to educate the public. Until recently, people were being mailed annual social security statements informing them what they could expect to receive. (This is being cut in the interest of saving money.) Tax advantaged accounts are available. There are non-profit organizations who exist to spread the good word about saving. The basics of personal finance are already taught in schools, the information is simply not packaged that way. I agree that a dedicated personal finance course in high school is an excellent idea.
The rock and the hard place isn’t poverty itself it’s the “need” for government assistance due to the fact that less people are saving for retirement because they feel the government is going to provide it for them.
By providing social security for the people, it is removing all incentive for people to do it themselves which in turn creates the rock and the hard place when they end up not receiving the money they were promised. My point was that instead of the government helping it was hurting people.
Totally lost on the idea that getting a social security statement has anything to do with someone actually saving for their retirement outside of SS.
You are saying that just because programs or websites are available that that is enough to create an environment of savers. I disagree. With social security in place, many simply neglect to save for retirement. that’s a fact! The savings in the U.S. has been negative until recently.
Personal finance is NOT taught in school on the level it needs to be. School might teach math but that’s not the same as teaching them the importance of spending less than they make and so forth. Am I wrong? we seem to agree on there needing to be a more comprehensive curriculum regarding high school. there is nothing as of now and that is what I am referring to.
“Totally lost on the idea that getting a social security statement has anything to do with someone actually saving for their retirement outside of SS.”
When I look at my Social Security statement, I am motivated to save for my retirement because I see how little my benefits will be. If I had the notion that my benefits would be enough to live comfortably, I have just been informed in black and white that I am mistaken. If I reach retirement age not having planned ahead for myself, I cannot claim “But I didn’t know I would get so little!”, because the SSA has just told me. They’ve told everyone. I have only myself to blame.
“You are saying that just because programs or websites are available that that is enough to create an environment of savers. I disagree. With social security in place, many simply neglect to save for retirement. that’s a fact! The savings in the U.S. has been negative until recently. ”
Yes, it is a fact that many neglect to save for retirement. I disagree that Social Security is the cause. There were penniless seniors prior to the existence of Social Security. What caused those people to not save? It must have been something else.
“Personal finance is NOT taught in school on the level it needs to be. School might teach math but that’s not the same as teaching them the importance of spending less than they make and so forth. Am I wrong? we seem to agree on there needing to be a more comprehensive curriculum regarding high school. there is nothing as of now and that is what I am referring to ”
I agree that the applying math seems to be a struggle for many, and that a dedicated personal finance course would benefit many. I would support it.
I bet you are in the minority when it comes to actually looking at your statement but let’s just say everyone looks at their statement. What does that really do? Nothing, because the assumption is that it will actually still be available upon retirement. What I’m saying is that that assumption can set someone up for that rock and the hard place I referred to. They count on the amount on the statement and if they save anything it’s the bare minimum based on the misconception they will receive a certain amount.
Do you HONESTLY believe that social security will be available when you are ready to retire? It’s actually bankrupting the country now and the money that has been stolen by force (because I would opt-out if given the choice) is actually going to pay for someone elses retirement. If the money you paid was actually your money for your retirement then I wouldn’t have a problem with ss. The fact is that it isn’t and because of that I am bewildered as to why anyone would defend a program that is not working the way it was intended.
That is why I stand firm in my belief that people who solely rely on ss are making a huge mistake. What’s going to happen is when the money ends up not being there we’re going to be asked to foot the bill with more taxes in the name of saving people who shouldn’t have relied on ss in the first place. That was my point entirely.
And just because poverty existed prior to social security doesn’t mean the government isn’t responsible for making it worse. The governments role in almost anything is over reaching and generally causes more pain than success. Look at the economy now. The goverent has made things worse not better and what is their answer? To do more. I wish people were more self reliant so the government had no reason to get in the way.
Want to know what I do when I gety social security statement. I laugh and then I throw it away and think nothing else about it.
Oh, you are saying people don’t save because they are counting on their promised SS benefits, believing those benefits are sufficient? Hmm. The average monthly check as of the beginning of 2011 is $1177 (source SSA.gov). I don’t know how anyone could read that and believe they are all set for easy street. The statements also contain the information that SS is facing future funding shortages, and that it is possible you will receive only 3/4 of the benefits estimated on your statement.
It may well be that the average person fails to read their annual statement. I think that goes right back to personal responsibility. If the SSA informs me what to expect, but I can’t be bothered to read the information, who’s fault is that? Isn’t it my own?
“Do you HONESTLY believe that social security will be available when you are ready to retire? It’s actually bankrupting the country now and the money that has been stolen by force (because I would opt-out if given the choice) is actually going to pay for someone elses retirement. If the money you paid was actually your money for your retirement then I wouldn’t have a problem with ss. The fact is that it isn’t and because of that I am bewildered as to why anyone would defend a program that is not working the way it was intended.”
Yes, I do honestly believe that Social Security will be available when I retire. It isn’t going anywhere. Payroll taxes will have to go up, or benefits will have to go down, or benefits will be paid later, or some combination of all of those things will occur. (Personally, I think that some combination of all 3 will be what happens. We’re seeing those implementations already.) It’s called a “sacred cow” for a reason.
I disagree that Social Security is “actually bankrupting the country now”. Do you have any evidence to support this claim?
Why do you feel Social Security does not work the way it was intended? It was intended to keep the elderly out of abject poverty. I believe it accomplishes that. It was not intended to be a guarantee of a lavish lifestyle.
Certainly no one should rely solely on Social Security.
I’m a libertarian, I am all for smaller government. That is why I do not look to government to provide me with an incentive to plan for my own life. I do not feel that is the role of government. I do feel it is the role of government to provide a minimum safety net for those who cannot help themselves. At some point, if we live long enough, we become unable to do much to help ourselves.
Ok.
“Yes, I do honestly believe that Social Security will be available when I retire.”
WOW!
I don’t think there is much else I can say about it other than that I think if it exists at all our money should be put into a fund that we ourselves manage. that way I can decide how my money is invested as well as insure ALL of the money that is taken plus interest will be there and not squandered by congress because they don’t have the ability to manage a kids piggy bank. Furthermore I do not want to pay more taxes than I already do just because congress stole from the social security fund prior to the 80’s! We pay too much already and that money is wasted daily. I think the IRS should be abolished completely and support some kind of fair tax myself. 🙂
You have a lot of faith in Washington DC that’s all I can say. I do appreciate the lively debate though and want to thank you for being respectful. As Libertarians we certainly disagree on an awful lot but I respect your opinion nonetheless.
Hello Petunia 100 from a fellow Libertarian, and hello to my friend Brad. If you two don’t stop bickering in the back seat, I’m going to have to stop this car! 🙂 The great thing about Libertarians is we’re so independent that we rarely have the same opinion and outlook on things. We’re not sheep. We’re not followers. We’re not myrmidons. We’re independent spirits. That’s a great thing. So, let me offer another view from one who doesn’t follow the crowd, and rarely listens to others who do.
Perhaps I scanned through the comments too fast to notice, but I didn’t see anyone bring out the most important fact of all – the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in the 1960s that the social security tax was just another tax that congress can do with as they please. This is still good law. Nothing has changed.
So, despite the myth that you’ll have a government pension, the U.S. government owes you nothing. It has no obligation to pay anyone a dime, no matter how much you contributed, no matter how much you need it, no matter how impoverished you are. It doesn’t matter if you view this as an entitlement, something that you’ve earned, or some kind of investment. The bottom line is it’s not your money. It’s money that belongs to our fearless leaders in the federal government, and they’ll do whatever they please with it. Just like they normally do with the wealth that they regularly and legally steal from us.
Harry Reid confirmed this when he warned that Social Security was one of the programs that could suffer if the debt ceiling wasn’t raised. If the program is really an investment, it would be run as a self-supporting benefit that would be unaffected by anything else the government is doing. That’s just not the case. Funds are co-mingled by the congress.
Roosevelt’s grandson recently had a wonderful article in AARP magazine claiming that Social Security was the best of any government program ever. Of course he would. His grandfather signed it into law. Among other things, his article cited the fact that Social Security isn’t allowed to borrow money, but he neglected to note that congress can borrow money from the fund at any time, and they frequently do. He also noted that it paid out a very high percentage of what it takes in – a very low “management burden” on the fund. Unfortunately, he failed to mention that congress uses that money as they see fit, and they have the Supreme Court ruling to back them up. So, who cares about the low management burden when the entire congress is dipping into it whenever they see fit?
As of this year, the Social Security Administration shows that I’ll have a monthly benefit of between $1,500 and $2,500 a month, depending if I retire early, or at the official government designated retirement age, or at some later date. But, I don’t count on any of that. They can stick it where the sun doesn’t shine. I count on Social Security not at all. And, neither should anyone else. It’s a sacred cow, yes, but when you’re hungry for money, I imagine that cow is mighty tasty.
I self-retired about six years ago at age 49. Call me self-reliant, I dare you.
The bottom line is I’m not going to count on anyone in government to provide me with anything. I recognize that most of the folks in Washington D.C. are there to provide for themselves, riding on the backs of decent American taxpayers, many of whom believe that Social Security will be there for them. Fat chance. Just when you get to the carrot, they’ll move the stick. That’s why I suggest they stick it where the sun doesn’t shine.
The U.S. government is probably the best example of “life isn’t fair.” So, if you want fairness, if you want what you deserve, if you want what’s owed to you, you’ll have to create and secure it for yourself. That’s the only way you can be certain that it happens.
Clair I love your analysis man! Very nicely written as always! Me and Petunia100 were playing nice I swear it. LOL seriously though, I agree with you and wished I would have thought about some of what you brought up before writing that rant piece. That’s all it was, I just got sick of reading crybabies on twitter bitch about social security being reformed and thought I would make a post out of it. You know how I feel about self reliance which is what my post boiled down to. Stop relying on Washington to provide anything for you and you won’t have to worry about it when they fail to keep their end of the bargain. I did think, however, that something was signed in the 80’s (if I’m not mistaken) that kept them from sticking their hands in the retirement cookie jar. Am I wrong about that?
Anyway it started a pretty good discussion and I hope that it at least gets people thinking about how they are planning to deal with their own retirement. All though I knew it would ruffle some feathers I had no idea the majority of people responding would be taking up for the failed program. I did have a twitter follower tell me that I was nicer than she would have been so at least I have that. This is why I love blogging so much man! I do wonder how many heading to the financial blogger conference changed their mind about wanting to meet up. LOL I’m glad I don’t judge my friends by their politics because where I live I wouldn’t have many friends at all. 😀
Cheers to everyone who participated in this great conversation! 🙂 Fortunately for all of us we can’t always agree on everything otherwise life would be pretty damn boring and predictable. LOL Have a great weekend everyone!
I think you are taking the right approach. I am also not counting on it or assuming that I will get one dime from the government when I retire. My calculations do not include it at all.
Right on CashFlowMantra! Even if someone disagrees with almost everything I said I hope they can at least take that away from this post because if they do they won’t go wrong. Then if I’m wrong about it existing when they retire, which will probably mean we will being paying a boatload more taxes, then they will have some extra money to entertain their grandchildren with! 😀
I am an Australian and we are facing the same problem here – too many people rely on welfare payments to make up for their shortcomings. A lot of people don’t want to work and I have no problem with that if they are living off passive income streams they have built themselves, I do have a problem with moochers who expect money to constantly come from another source with no effort on their part. Social security in my eyes was for those who needed it most like cerebral palsy people and others with disabilities that inhibit their ability to fend for themselves not for normal people who chose to be lazy and rip off the system.
Leisa,
Isn’t it amazing that so many people are willing to continue the charade knowing full well millions of lives will be at stake if we keep funding this disaster of a government program — in the U.S. and in Australia? Why shouldn’t we be responsible for taking care of our own wants and needs? Why should the government even be involved unless of course, as you rightly pointed out, someone was UNABLE to provide for themselves. I just can’t stand the government thinking it needs to coddle everyone until they die. The financial burden that is social security should be reason enough to put an end to it. It’s a fact that governments don’t manage money well.
Thanks for your sharing your thoughts! 😀
I’m not ready to dismantle Social Security altogether. However, it needs to be reformed. If we (Americans) want to keep it, we need to be prepared to pay for it. I believe it could be “saved” by increasing taxes and reducing benefits. We can increase taxes by removing or raising the salary level at which SS taxes apply. We could increase the SS tax rate. Currently, not all income is subject to SS tax. We could collect SS taxes on unearned income. I’ve even heard the idea of means testing being floated.
Personally, I’m not a fan of increasing taxes. Lately, I’ve heard a lot about the $1,177 average benefit paid out to those receiving SS. It doesn’t sound like much, but I wonder what size nest egg you’d need to safely withdraw $1,177 a month without prematurely depleting your retirement funds if you didn’t have SS. At a safe withdrawal rate of 3%, you’d need $470,800. You’d need $353,100 if the SWR was 4%. I don’t know how much the average American contributes to SS over their working lives, but I’m guessing they’ll get far more out of the system than they put in if we continue with what we’re doing now. That’s unrealistic and unsustainable.
A while back, John Boehner suggested the SS retirement age be raised to 70. I didn’t think it was such a terrible idea, but it caused a huge uproar in the media. People are having fewer children to pay for their retirement and they’re living longer. The program is simply too expensive. We can’t afford it.
What I’m about to say is going to sound callous to some, but here goes.
Although some Americans see SS as an untouchable sacred cow, I don’t. Never have. Old people are great, but besides children they’re probably the least productive members of our society. I don’t understand how we could spend so much money on citizens who contribute the least. I’m not saying the elderly are evil for living long enough to get old. I’m just saying we shouldn’t have to gut a ton of other investments and risk the financial security of America to keep Social Security the same. Some serious sacrifices need to be made, and they shouldn’t be made solely by those who dare to make a decent living for themselves.
Those of us under the age of 40 should bear the brunt of the burden of figuring out how we’re going to take care of ourselves in retirement. Maybe we shouldn’t retire. Maybe we should live in a boarding house with other old people to cut down on living expenses. (There are people who do this.) If nothing else, we need to increase our income and cut our expenses NOW so that we have enough money saved to cover our living expenses between the time we retire and the time we start receiving our drastically reduced SS benefits. We’ve got decades to figure it out.
Thanks for the comment Shawanda, and I don’t think your “callous” statement was that far off. It’s one of those things that need to be said but just aren’t because it’s so politically incorrect. Sometimes logic is thrown out the window in place of the emotional response most people take. There sure are a lot of issues in this country that seem to be untouchable for that reason alone. As soon as you bring it up you are called all kinds of ugly names. I think that’s a big problem in this country right now. for what some consider the greatest country ever, it seems a little crazy to me that honest debate can’t take place because the subject matter is touchy and might offend someone. The answer seems to be let the country go down in ruins. SAD!
You ROCK Shawanda! Thanks for sharing your thoughts and I really loved your roundup! Particularly this part:
“Can an 85 yr old woman be a co signer on a home loan? She sure can, but why would you ask her? She ain’t dead yet. Get your s*** together, save up a large down payment, and stand on your own two feet.”
I love how you don’t mince words! 😀
Leisa, are you suggesting that “sitting at home checks” aren’t great motivators in terms of personal achievement? Hmmm, that’s something to think about. Social Security might not be such a great motivator either, simply because it’s a promise of a sitting at home check. Come to think of it, I know plenty of people who have just coasted into early “official” retirement, drooling over the thought of getting a check from the Social Security Administration. It’s fun to watch them count down the days until they turn 62 and a half.
Brad, it doesn’t matter what is signed by anyone. The Supreme Court is the precedence that counts. It will be what’s pointed to when there is a need to raid the cookie jar or kill the cow that gives milk. Few in Washington are concerned at all about any agreement or law, including the constitution, and that’s what gets us The Patriot Act, Free Speech Zones, and a debt ceiling that is simply changed when it’s convenient to do so. Collectively, we have poor decision makers in the voting booths and that gets us poor decision makers in office. And, those who fund the system always suffer – until the system collapses under its own weight and mismanagement, and then those who count on the system suffer. Lest we forget, those who count on the system include recipients and government employees whose jobs are directly tied to program implementation.
To answer your question, here’s an excerpt from a CNN report of August, 16, 2001, about 20 years after the “signing” of whatever was supposed to protect Social Security. It’s called, Report: Government dipping into Social Security.
“New budget estimates that will be released by the Congressional Budget Office this month are expected to show a lower Social Security surplus, indicating that reserves from the fund will be tapped to pay for other government spending this fiscal year, USA Today reported Thursday. The newspaper cited congressional sources from both parties who said that President Bush and Congress are looking to tap reserves, despite pledges to protect surplus Social Security funds.”
The full article is here: http://articles.cnn.com/2001-08-16/politics/budget.social.security_1_federal-budget-surplus-social-security-new-budget-estimates?_s=PM:ALLPOLITICS It’s reminiscent of what happens anytime there is a great big pile of money sitting in one place, no one really in charge of minding the store, and very few expressing concern about the lack of appropriate management. Sadly, the idea of fiduciary responsibility just doesn’t seem to enter into the equation.
In light of all of this, being on your own seems to be the best approach from where I sit. The beauty of doing it yourself is should you make a bad decision, you’re only sinking your boat and those riding in it. That most certainly isn’t the case with Social Security – it’s a great big ship and millions are along for the ride. You’d think that would make for more careful management. Think again.
They started social security because there were so many people who were poor in their old age & who had no family to help them. Those people were not counting on social security since it didn’t exist yet & they knew they needed to save for old age. It didn’t help.
Charities and churches tried to help, but they couldn’t help everyone who needed it. If you read the histories of early charities in the US you’ll see that it was controversial to try to help the poor of any age. It was thought to be too hopeless to even try by many wealthy business owners. Only over many years of pleading with them did the charities begin to get support from the wealthy. Even schools for poor children were thought to be unnecessary because the children were too wild.
Times have changed, but challenges remain. Just because social security has problems does not mean we should throw it out. The social security fund was raided many times by Congress when it should have been left intact. It’s time for reforms and adjustments to it.
I hope that more and more people will save for their retirement years, but many do not. They’d rather spend almost all they make. I don’t know how you can change that even if you take away social security. The trouble with human nature is that half of people are below average! (wink)
i think the use of the word is being missused. an entitlement is somthing you recieve without any action on your part. socisl security is a contract, you pay into it and upon retirement you recieve a benefit. the illusion that you can save or rely on a pension plan is foolhardy. just ask all the people whose 401k accounts lost 50% or more of their worth because of the financial meltdow, or the many pension plans that are’nt fully funded and have to be taken over by the goverment beneficiary fund. you have to remember that putting your money into the stock market is a gamble. it is like walking into the casino and betting your future on a little ball landing on your number. the problem with social security is that the congress uses it as it’s own little bank account, they barrow from it and now they don’t want to pay it back. yes there has to be some reform, get rid of the frauds and the stealing from the system and it will be fine. remember the rich and the business comunity are not out to protect you or even give you a level playing field. they only wish to line their own pockets.
Great point Leo, I should have been more clear as to what I meant by entitlement. What I mean is that people in this country EXPECT the government to provide the social security program in the first place, not that they expect to paid what they paid into the system. My point was that the government has spent and wasted the money so why would people still want the government to manage such a program when they themselves could do better for their futures. This post was more of a rant after reading people on twitter complain about social security reform. As you know rants usually happen off the cuff, which was exactly what this was. I agree I should have been more clear about my use of the word entitlement. I actually think people are entitled to the money that was taken from their paychecks but sadly, as you know, will not likely happen, at least not in full. People deserve much more than the government will end up giving them and my belief is that relying on the government to provide a program of this nature is expecting too much. Self reliance seems to be a thing of the past and if people were more self reliant no one would have a problem reforming a failed program. Thanks for the comment. 😀
I think Social Security has become something of a default. People rely on it often so that they don’t have to do anything more. But with all the savings options available today we’re running out of excuses.
Retirement savings, like 401k’s, IRAs, Roth IRAs, SEPs, and non-retirement accounts are abundant. With all the 1000s of mutual funds, EFTs and stock there are plenty of investment choices available to more people than ever before.
Perhaps it’s a matter of short term focus. To prepare for retirement, or any long term goal, we actually have to think long term, and not be so caught up in the now.
I think you have hit the nail on the head Kevin. Short term focus eliminates the possibility of preparing for the long term. There definitely IS an abundance of investment opportunities that can help anyone retire with dignity if they so chose. The problem is that they are not choosing that option, and although SS may not be the whole reason, logic tells me that when someone provides something for you you are far less likely to do it yourself. Great comment sir! Thank you! 🙂
I love reading through these comments, it opens my thoughts to other ways of thinking